Ordinary art students can learn programming
Forum: Microcontrollers and Digital Electronics Arduino - does it work?
Some time ago I bought an Arduino 2560 on the fly. Everyone is raving about Arduino and I thought a test board for quick tests would be just fine. Now I am terribly disappointed, because the software development (= testing of basic algorithms and hardware communication) is at least as cumbersome as the normal ATmel Stdudio 6! In addition, I have no control over the code (= break points). Sending a lot of debug strings over the serial interface can’t be possible. Did I miss something or is the Arduino a waste of money (at least if you just want to experiment) Are there better solutions than this unspeakable Arduino IDE?
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I don't really think a Chinese Arduino is a waste of money. It is almost always designed for beginners, or for people who can program better than solder. that might help you (3 seconds google .....) http://dalpix.com/mariamole
Yes, debug strings is the easiest of all debug options with the AVR. Toggling pins is a bit more complex, because you need an oscilloscope. In terms of hardware, a dual, quad, octal DAC to an oscilloscope is even more complex. The breakpoints are not applicable to processes that run with the external world anyway. You should be able to write code that is almost flawless. Until you can do that you should test the code in the simulator
N. N. wrote:> Now I am terribly disappointed, because the software development (=> testing of basic algorithms and hardware communication) is> at least as cumbersome as the normal ATmel Stdudio 6! What is compiled there? The operation of the IDE ?? Or the use of the simple Arduino Libs? The practical thing about Arduino are the many libraries in connection with a variety of hardware. So a lot becomes too few lines of code without having carefully dealt with the hardware. > Are there better solutions than this unspeakable Arduino IDE? Yes. See google ...
N. N. wrote:> Everyone raves about Arduino How do you get that? It's a tool for beginners and casual programmers, similar to Bascom. In their community you will of course only hear praise and get help. I don't know whether you will find really complex applications there. In general MC forums, however, you run the risk of being turned on at an angle. Plain C without special wizards is the measure of all things and a few hardcore assembler programmers. Increasingly also C ++. Ultimately, however, it is not the programming language / environment that is decisive for success, but rather the program sequence planning before write down the first line of code! You have to learn to think like a CPU.
Marius P. wrote:> It is designed more for beginners, or for people who> can program better than solder. Yes, the Arduinoboys regularly lie in their own pockets. Of course they can program as badly as they can understand hardware (as if soldering were important ...). But if you have to access the hardware yourself, you will immediately see that you have no idea and nothing works. At SW it works a little differently. First you have the finished libs and then you just copy the 4 lines of control of these libs from the network. And voila, you can program. Only the hardware stuff doesn't suit you that much. The life lie par excellence but who doesn't have it. greetings cyblord
N. N. wrote:> Did I miss something or is the Arduino a waste of money For people who really know something about hardware and µC programming, Arduino is certainly a waste of money. Unless they sell Arduino and / or Arduino accessories, that's where they make a living. The target group for Arduino are people who actually have no plan, but who should still succeed in one or the other. And this sense of achievement should come as quickly as possible so that you can buy the next overpriced stuff soon. However: if you really have an idea of the matter, you can see through the business model, before he buys Arduino and not afterwards and therefore does not buy at all. What does that tell us about you now?
> So much becomes too few lines of code without having carefully dealt with the hardware. "Much" hits! If someone is satisfied with what can be put together from the finished libs - the debug strings are ideal for them. If you have a clear idea of what the thing should do, you have to program libs yourself; needs an in-circuit debugger. The Arduino people say very clearly: This thing is for artists, not software developers.
I recently bought a tractor. So many farmers rave about it and have only reported the best about it. When I wanted to take it on the autobahn, the thing totally let me down. It occurs to me that there isn't another windshield for the tractor or do I have to use the strange one that comes with it? Even in the city everyone just laughed at me and no woman wanted to go with me. Now I've read that the tractor drivers know nothing about things like turbo injectors and are just as ignorant of technology as these Trabbi drivers. BTW Why can't you couple the trailers to a Porsche like you do to the tractors? And why do people always buy cars who are not engine engineers at all, or at least car mechanics? If something doesn't work, they are totally freaked out. I just don't get it ... / irony
Can't you program the ardu as you want without the arduino ide?
Derb schrub:> Can't you program the ardu as you want without the arduino ide? Of course. MfG Paul
derb wrote:> where is the problem then? With you, in case you think that Arduino only means the board. Arduino is the hardware and software package. Of course you can buy an Arduino board and use it as a normal dev board. Only that has nothing to do with "Arduino". greetings cyblord
ah ok, you are probably right. just thought> a test board for quick> tests would be just right + do everything yourself with the cost of 15 € including shipping would be the right thing for the TE but I have no idea I have to admit :)
Arduino offers many additional circuits (WLAN, Bluetooth, Motorshield ...). Programming can also be done in ATMEL Studio 6. This is described very nicely in the new book "Power projects with Arduino and C" (ISBN-10: 3645651314). You made a good choice with the purchase of the Arduino.
Hey, Arduino is like driving a car without reinventing the engine ... :-P Is like using Windows without having programmed it yourself, is like watching TV without having made the film yourself, is like harvesting your crops without having built the tractor yourself is like being successful without going through hell for it, is just a little easier and because you can quickly get results that some supposed super professionals can't get. That's why there is probably envy and that’s why Arduino has to be talked badly ... I also have little idea about µC programming, but: with Arduino I managed in a reasonable time to tinker with an Atmel 328 a Modbus slave that reads out over 100 DS18B20 temperature sensors and sends the values to a PLC can pass on. My buddy is a little further and uses AVR Studio and the Arduino boards as DEV boards. I think a 2560 board is cheap for $ 25. Greetings, Tom
Tom P. wrote:> it is just a little easier and because it allows you to> quickly achieve results that some supposed super professionals cannot manage. With Arduino every dork can do it, only you need a µC 10x as large as necessary and you are on a board limited that just a fraction of the hardware of the µC can be used.
avr wrote:> Any idiot can do it with Arduino, it would be nice, then take a look here, or even in the Arduino forum. One Arduino user after another opens up and fails at the most trivial tasks. The problem is, Arduino attracts the naps that would otherwise keep your hands off microcontrollers and programming. And then they wonder why they can't get anything baked despite Arduino, and they diligently open threads here. greetings cyblord
Hei avr, yes and? Don't you feel so great now because every dork can do it now?!? :-P I recently installed a printer driver. A whopping 380MB !!! Greetings, Tom
by Mw E. (Company: fritzler-avr.de) (fritzler)
With the Arduino you get into trouble at the latest when you want to stack 2 shields and they want a few IOs in parallel ... There were already enough Freds here in the forum. Then the "data sheets" for the shields are absolutely useless to convert them in such a way that the problem can be circumvented. Then, of course, there is still the problem of redesigning the badly programmed Lib on the port. @ Tom: very bad examples;) Anyone who wants to go into the embeddet area should also have the necessary basic knowledge, after all, for the car you also need a driver's license.
What's the problem with Atmel Studio 6? I find it quite usable and it is actually unproblematic to get it to work with Arduino. Arduino is just a finished circuit board with a microcontroller and USB interface. Of course it is also cheaper, but if you have little experience it might be better to concentrate on the essentials instead of tinkering around unnecessarily. You don't have to use the Arduino software ...
by Timm R. (Company: privatfrickler.de) (treinisch)
avr wrote:> Anyone can do it with Arduino, only you need a 10x> large µC as necessary and is limited to a board that you can use> a fraction of the hardware of the µC. hmm, I don't get the point! What hardware can I do with bsp. not using an Arduino Mega 2560 (I happen to know that)? More specifically, please! vlg Timm
by Timm R. (Company: privatfrickler.de) (treinisch)
Hello, and one more question: Such an Arduino board is commercial, doesn't that mean that it is / has to be EMC-tested? vlg Timm
of Confused beginner (Guest)
@Martin> Anyone who wants to enter the embeddet area should also have the necessary> basic knowledge, for the car you finally need a> driving license. If you explain to me how I endanger my life and the lives of others through untrained use of an Arduino, then I might even let the argument get away. But don't come up with "If I put mains voltage on one of the IO pins ...", then we would need a driver's license to buy lightbulbs.
Confused beginner wrote:> @Martin >> Anyone who wants to enter the embeddet area should also have the necessary >> basic knowledge, for the car you need a >> driver's license. >> If you explain to me how I> my life through untrained use of an Arduino and endanger the lives of others, then I'll let the argument> maybe even get away.
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